PB2K Jukebox?!?! Video

[JB]

I read the subject and thought, "YES! I can finally listen to the GAME's music outside the context of a game-in-progress."

That's what I would really like; the ability to do a sound test wherein the game's actual entire soundtrack could be played. Much like other pinball titles in test mode.

My particular RFM is equipped with MOASS - the Mother of All Sound Systems. See here:
http://www.videoengine.com/pins/rfm/default.htm#topper

I would LOVE to be able to call up any tune from the game and play it.

-JB

[sellenoff]

I read the subject and thought, "YES! I can finally listen to the GAME's music outside the context of a game-in-progress."

That's what I would really like; the ability to do a sound test wherein the game's actual entire soundtrack could be played. Much like other pinball titles in test mode.

My particular RFM is equipped with MOASS - the Mother of All Sound Systems. See here:
http://www.videoengine.com/pins/rfm/default.htm#topper

I would LOVE to be able to call up any tune from the game and play it.

-JB

Well, I'm sure you were disappointed by the jukebox feature based on what you assumed it meant, however, you should be psyched to know that your idea is already planned as I already had thought people would want that feature, and it's a very easy one to implement.

Plus, in addition to that, I'm planning on eventually integrating the two ideas to allow jukebox mode to use internal sounds & music from the game in addition to your external mp3 files.

I just thought of a way you might be able to improve the idea a small bit further. I originally planned to just show the sound #, but what would be great would be if someone (you?) could go through all the sounds and write down nice descriptions of what they are, then I could integrate that right into the screen so you could see what sounds to play.

If interested let me know, and when the time comes, we'll figure out a way to get you a beta to play with to make the list.

-Steve

[JB]

Well of COURSE I'm interested! I will help any way I can; just let me know.

I really love the RFM game just for the pure creativity that went into it. You guys must share this thought or you wouldn't be doing this project.

I think you already have my email, but just in case:
JB *at* videoengine *dot* com

Thanks,
-JB

[JB]

Steve,

I thought about the whole jukebox / lightshow ideas and came to realize you could sell a jukebox lightshow designer add-on pack for your product.

I envision some sort of editor like they have for those xmas light controllers, where the user defines their own lightshow synchronized to the music.

That way, users could really and truly have custom music playing on their RFM.

Later,
-JB

[ChadTower]

The only way I'd use a juke feature would be if it were playing content from a local server and if it added something any other networked player doesn't have. The lightshow idea works - that was my first thought too. If it had to be playing local content it just wouldn't be worth the wear on the game, especially given that probably all of us have better sound systems than are in an RFM.

[sellenoff]

Steve,

I thought about the whole jukebox / lightshow ideas and came to realize you could sell a jukebox lightshow designer add-on pack for your product.

I envision some sort of editor like they have for those xmas light controllers, where the user defines their own lightshow synchronized to the music.

That way, users could really and truly have custom music playing on their RFM.

Later,
-JB

One of the lower priority planned features I had was to allow a custom lightshow during attract mode, so I could probably do the same idea for the jukebox, although it's not clear to me how it would sync to the music other than on each x # of samples played that are not quiet the next lamp in the sequence would turn on/off etc..

[sellenoff]

The only way I'd use a juke feature would be if it were playing content from a local server and if it added something any other networked player doesn't have. The lightshow idea works - that was my first thought too. If it had to be playing local content it just wouldn't be worth the wear on the game, especially given that probably all of us have better sound systems than are in an RFM.

I wasn't planning on support outside the physical box for the initial release, but that is a good suggestion and I think we'll eventually add that in.

In the meantime, I'm not sure what wear on the game you are referring to?

[sellenoff]

Hey sellenoff I borrow ideas from codeproject all the time: The following link has some snippets of code and other information (some VIA links) about ID3 data snagging/manipulation.

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/cs/Do_Any ... h_ID3.aspx

Utilizing ID3 in a similar manner as the IPOD you could have the album art displayed on the Playfield assuming the image was embedded in the MP3.

Thanks for the links. I spent a lot of Sunday writing a simple ID3 parser from a collection of info I found, what a pain. From what I can tell it works ok on the mp3 fils I have at this point. To ensure compatability, I'll probably post the parser at some point for people to download and try so I can find and fix any odd-ball mp3 id tag issues that come up.

I was originally planning on just using an existing id3 tag library, but there were many issues with a lot of them, and in the end, the code was much more complicated than for what I needed it for anyway.

I like your image idea lot, I'll have to see how much work is involved to parse & display it.

[ChadTower]

In the meantime, I'm not sure what wear on the game you are referring to?

Power supply/GI/etc. Those parts have finite lifespans too.

[incogneato]

Extra credit to anyone who can name all the songs and artists I played in the video. I almost guarantee that nobody can guess them all. I can think of 1-2 songs that likely nobody would know unless they were a fan themselves..

OK, here's a shot:

Carry on my wayward son -- Kansas
Get Ready For This -- 2 Unlimited
(damn, I've heard that, but can't identify it)
Black Dog -- Led Zeppelin
(unknown)
Jeff Beck or Satriani?
Have a Nice Day -- Bon Barfi (I can't believe I know this)
Two Princes -- Spin Doctors



Here's my take on the juke idea...

1) Loading songs on a pinball machine is dumb. Sorry guys, it just is. But accessing songs that you already have stored somewhere on the network (read: UPnP!) would be smart. Turning it into a networked media player would be GREAT! Especially considering how darn near every motherboard these days has at least a hundred meg ethernet connection, it seems like a no-brainer.

2) The lightshow isn't a bad idea, but the way I see myself using it I'd much rather have the option of turning OFF everything (controlled lamps + DPMS power down the monitor if it's not an original). I see myself starting up some tunes (or TOPCAST!) and then going and fixing other games. (Keeping the lights + monitor on would be a waste.)

3) You have a whole computer in there, use it! Video via UPnP! The thought of watching Maury Povich on Pin2K -- WOW!! No, I'm kidding. But can you imagine monkey butter porn!???


In short, if you want to make it a network media streamer I'd call that a smart idea as it doesn't require re-loading everything onto that device. But having the game be its own storage island? Nah; that's what an ipod and cheap speakers are for.

[sellenoff]

Thanks for your feedback Chuck. You got all the songs right that you guessed, but of course, the ones you missed are the ones I'm expecting few people to know.

We had never really thought of the upnp idea until you and chad mentioned it, and I think it's really a great idea. We implemented it the way we did for now because it was simple to implement.

I've no idea how to write a upnp server, but am happy to do learn if there's good docs available and it doesn't take me huge amounts of time to do, or if there's a good open source lgpl version that we could integrate into the product.

OTH - it's obviously a low priority as we want to get as much of the pinball related stuff fininshed first as I'm sure everyone would agree takes priority.

So, in short, excellent suggestion, possible for the 1st release, though more likely later on, but definitely a strong possiblity.

ps - the low power mode is also an excellent suggestion, though there's no way to power off the arcade monitor from software, so it'd have to be a bit of a compromise I guess, unless you can think of a way around the problem?

Extra credit to anyone who can name all the songs and artists I played in the video. I almost guarantee that nobody can guess them all. I can think of 1-2 songs that likely nobody would know unless they were a fan themselves..

OK, here's a shot:

Carry on my wayward son -- Kansas
Get Ready For This -- 2 Unlimited
(damn, I've heard that, but can't identify it)
Black Dog -- Led Zeppelin
(unknown)
Jeff Beck or Satriani?
Have a Nice Day -- Bon Barfi (I can't believe I know this)
Two Princes -- Spin Doctors



Here's my take on the juke idea...

1) Loading songs on a pinball machine is dumb. Sorry guys, it just is. But accessing songs that you already have stored somewhere on the network (read: UPnP!) would be smart. Turning it into a networked media player would be GREAT! Especially considering how darn near every motherboard these days has at least a hundred meg ethernet connection, it seems like a no-brainer.

2) The lightshow isn't a bad idea, but the way I see myself using it I'd much rather have the option of turning OFF everything (controlled lamps + DPMS power down the monitor if it's not an original). I see myself starting up some tunes (or TOPCAST!) and then going and fixing other games. (Keeping the lights + monitor on would be a waste.)

3) You have a whole computer in there, use it! Video via UPnP! The thought of watching Maury Povich on Pin2K -- WOW!! No, I'm kidding. But can you imagine monkey butter porn!???


In short, if you want to make it a network media streamer I'd call that a smart idea as it doesn't require re-loading everything onto that device. But having the game be its own storage island? Nah; that's what an ipod and cheap speakers are for.

[incogneato]

Thanks for your feedback Chuck. You got all the songs right that you guessed, but of course, the ones you missed are the ones I'm expecting few people to know.

Yeah, figured as much... Could you PM me the ones I missed? Ya got me curious!

I've no idea how to write a upnp server, but am happy to do learn if there's good docs available and it doesn't take me huge amounts of time to do, or if there's a good open source lgpl version that we could integrate into the product.

I don't think you want to create a UPnP server, but rather a client (a.k.a. "control point"). I think with the appropriate amount of cutting and pasting, one of these two projects should get you a few miles down the road:

djmount
Platinum UPnP

(But if you really really want to create a UPnP server for some reason, check out MythTV. It has a really good UPnP server in it.)

OTH - it's obviously a low priority as we want to get as much of the pinball related stuff fininshed first as I'm sure everyone would agree takes priority.

Of course! But I'm just thinking that if I don't have to spend $150-200 on another media extender, that means UNCORE (wait, that's the name, right?) is $150-200 cheaper / more useful (to me, anyway!).

ps - the low power mode is also an excellent suggestion, though there's no way to power off the arcade monitor from software, so it'd have to be a bit of a compromise I guess, unless you can think of a way around the problem?

That was just me sort of thinking out loud. It's not a large step from "chuck the whole computer" to "chuck the whole computer AND the monitor". So in the latter case, since the replacement would be some sort of VGA or better monitor, DPMS support would be there already.

In the case of the original monitor, it wouldn't be too hard to make a small board that would snoop on the the monitor H&V sync lines, and if they go away (i.e. DPMS activated) then flip a relay that would cut the power to the monitor. Whether that's actually a good idea to do, I'm not sure. (Do monitors have a finite amount of power up/power down cycles like hard drives? Would turning the original monitors off in a power saving fashion actually cause more wear than leaving them on?)

[sellenoff]

Yeah, figured as much... Could you PM me the ones I missed? Ya got me curious!

Yep..

I don't think you want to create a UPnP server, but rather a client (a.k.a. "control point"). I think with the appropriate amount of cutting and pasting, one of these two projects should get you a few miles down the road:

Yeah, sorry, I meant client..

djmount
Platinum UPnP

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Of course! But I'm just thinking that if I don't have to spend $150-200 on another media extender, that means UNCORE (wait, that's the name, right?) is $150-200 cheaper / more useful (to me, anyway!).

It's NUCORE actually.. as in "New-Core"..
I'm glad to see that we could add in extra value for you, that's always a great thing, so thanks again for the suggestion.

That was just me sort of thinking out loud. It's not a large step from "chuck the whole computer" to "chuck the whole computer AND the monitor". So in the latter case, since the replacement would be some sort of VGA or better monitor, DPMS support would be there already.

Yeah, and in fact Chuck (ironically enough), is going to do just that and use an LCD in his new SWE1 machine that he literally picked up just a few hours ago.

In the case of the original monitor, it wouldn't be too hard to make a small board that would snoop on the the monitor H&V sync lines, and if they go away (i.e. DPMS activated) then flip a relay that would cut the power to the monitor. Whether that's actually a good idea to do, I'm not sure. (Do monitors have a finite amount of power up/power down cycles like hard drives? Would turning the original monitors off in a power saving fashion actually cause more wear than leaving them on?)

Interesting idea.. I'd like to know the answer to the power on /off question as well..

[sellenoff]

The list so far of correct guesses. Some had the right band, wrong song.

1 ) Carry on my wayward son -- Kansas
2 ) Get Ready For This -- 2 Unlimited
3 ) ?
4 ) ? - Led Zeppelin
5 ) ?
6 ) ?
7 ) It's My Life - Bon Jovi
8 ) Two Princes -- Spin Doctors

[JMX]

7) Bon Jovi - It's my life

5) Metallica?