Help needed

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Eddie
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Re: Help needed

Post by Eddie »

Just finished taking everything apart.
There is no Bulge in the hood.
The ball popper, Diverter and the 3 ball popper assemblies are only a few days old.
For the life of me I cant see what the ball might be snagging on. It sounds like its hitting the top of the hood but just cant get out until after a bunch of tries.
Sometimes it comes out on the first try like its supposed to and when it does it is very smooth.
All of the assemblies The popper, the diverter the ramp and the hood are tight so nothing is moving around.
Everything appears to be lined up perfectly without anything protruding into the balls path from popper to hood exit.

The hood is smooth nothing bent on the edges I even polished the inside to make sure the ball was not catching or hitting some old hardened dirt.

I guess Ill order a hood if I can find one and maybe the metal upper and lower right ramp connector while Im at it.
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Chuck
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Re: Help needed

Post by Chuck »

Try http://www.mantisamusements.com/rfm.htm

Kerry makes these and I'm told they are great.
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Eddie
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Re: Help needed

Post by Eddie »

I was going to order one this weekend but they are only for the SOL popper.
The ball capture or 3 ball popper is made in 2 pieces the main assembly (Frame and Solenoid) which mounts under the playfield and the Hood which mounts to the top of the playfield.
The Upper and Lower Right Ramps are mounted to the Hood.
Too bad Kerry doesn't make a stainless Hood!
I just ordered a NOS hood from Illinois Pinball along with the Ramp Bridge!
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Eddie
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Re: Help needed

Post by Eddie »

Just installed a new Hood and ramp bridge.
The ball does not get stuck anymore yet the diverter still will not initiate unless it is triggered through the SOL hole when you are awarded capture light. So you have to wait to get the capture light and have it be awarded to open the capture ball paddle each time. Takes forever to get to multiball if you ever even reach it.
Once you get capture ball shouldnt it then be initiated with the ball passing over the captureball lane?
I replaced and checked every switch and they all work fine (Beeping on the switches)
Does the 10 opto board have anything to do with the Diverter Capture ball?
I did a visual check of this board and all of the resistors get hot to the point that you really cant touch them is this normal?
The R30 resistor however is very cool?
Basically it appears that whatever reads the sensors in the captureball lane is not triggering the capture ball. Is this a Logic problem?
Kenbo
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Re: Help needed

Post by Kenbo »

Resistors should not generally get that hot, especially the fractional wattage resistors used on those boards.

I've been following your problems with interest but, sorry, I've had no solutions to offer.
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sirscott
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Re: Help needed

Post by sirscott »

>Basically it appears that whatever reads the sensors in the captureball lane is not triggering the capture ball. Is this a Logic problem?

1. Confirm the 'switches' are working.
The the magnets can be tested in the Diagnostics switch test mode.
They show as switch 31 & 32. I just confirmed this on mine.
Confirm that your magnets are register using a ball passing over them on the playfield.

In game play, on my machine, fast ball do not register well. Slow balls are registering fine.

2. Reset the game to factory - to remove all compensation
It looks like you had a problem with your VUK, so the game software was compensating.

I have seen compensation on other games with loopholes too. You should not have received the Capture Award followed by the diverter to the VUK, if the game was compensating for a broken VUK.

A factory reset will clear the memory of what it thought was bad.
If at first you don’t succeed, destroy all evidence you tried.
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Eddie
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Re: Help needed

Post by Eddie »

THX FOR THE TIPS

I have done all of the things that you have said and all switches test just fine. I have reset the machine 3 times.

Then tonight I thought that the Cliffy protector was really close to one of the magnetic reed switches and I removed it in case it was causing some type of erroneous signals to the switch.

Then the ball capture worked just fine for about 3 games but when I did a diagnostic test to check how the computer was reading things it said (Ball Lock stuck OPEN?)

I turned the machine off then back on and then the tests read all OK! But then the Ball capture problem was back to square one!

Im am at a total loss as to what is going on!

If it were a wire harness or connector problem the switch test wouldnt work but it does just fine.

How could the ball capture just start working( The first time in weeks) for 3 games with the test reading that there was a problem?

How can the tests read all OK when the Ball capture doesnt work?

Every component on the upper right playfield above and below is brand new!
Kenbo
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Re: Help needed

Post by Kenbo »

This seems like a case where a digital storage scope would be useful. Do you have access to one?

You could put it on the diverter drive output. If the diverter logic signals the diverter to operate, and it doesn't, the problem is downstream. If the diverter logic fails to signal the diverter when it should then it's a logic problem. Divide and conquer.

Similar trouble shooting would work on the eddy sensors, but those are always a little flaky when fast shots are made on RFM.

With two sets of eyes you could do the same with logic probe LEDs, or maybe even one set of eyes and a logic probe with audio output.
ChadTower
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Re: Help needed

Post by ChadTower »

Sounds to me like a cracked solder joint somewhere in that logic circuit. With all else failing I'd pull the driver board and reflow all solder joints in the circuit for those mechs. Start with the connector header on the driver board and go all the way backwards.
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Eddie
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Re: Help needed

Post by Eddie »

Kenbo wrote:This seems like a case where a digital storage scope would be useful. Do you have access to one?

You could put it on the diverter drive output. If the diverter logic signals the diverter to operate, and it doesn't, the problem is downstream. If the diverter logic fails to signal the diverter when it should then it's a logic problem. Divide and conquer.

Similar trouble shooting would work on the eddy sensors, but those are always a little flaky when fast shots are made on RFM.

With two sets of eyes you could do the same with logic probe LEDs, or maybe even one set of eyes and a logic probe with audio output.
I dont have any of those tools or the know how!

The diverter works only if signaled through the popper optos.

The Reed Switches in the center lane are all new and test fine on the edge tests.

The Diagnostics read all systems OK
Kenbo
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Re: Help needed

Post by Kenbo »

When the behavior of a problem keeps changing it could easily be due to an intermittent connection.

ChadTower's suggestion might be right on the money.

There could be an intermittent break in the wiring too. Also, people don't realize it but connectors are rated for a specific number of insertions and they can wear out and become intermittent. If you have the tools and parts it wouldn't hurt to replace the connector pins and sockets.

Maybe you could rig up a test that would flex the wiring during a diverter test.

This is straw grasping at its finest :)

I'm chasing a similar problem in the low voltage control wiring of our backup generator. There is a control panel inside the house and another outside mounted on the generator. Sometimes the indoor one works and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the outdoor one works and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes neither works and I have to jumper the generator starter solenoid to get it running. It has to be bad connectors and/or switches since there is nothing but switches and spade terminal connectors in the circuit. This spring I'm replacing everything with marine grade components. If that doesn't work I don't know what else to try.
Kenbo
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Re: Help needed

Post by Kenbo »

Eddie, I posted a theory on RGP about your RFM problem.

Being that usenet is not guaranteed delivery, let me know if you don't see it.
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Eddie
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Re: Help needed

Post by Eddie »

Capture Ball Problem Solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Center Loop Rollover microswitch #74 was the Demon.

It turns out that this switch along with the Reed switches are what initiates the Captureball!

The #74 switch never gave any indications that it didnt work in any of the tests.

When I removed it I noticed a little corrosion on the middle terminal and also that it needed a firm push on the wire form to depress the switch.

Sometimes after springing back to its open position the wireform would prevent the button from fully extending
keeping the button depressed.

This shows that you should not depend on the tests for answers as I was able to trigger the beep on the switch test by depressing the wireform to the button by hand something the ball was not able to do in play.

I replaced the switch and The Captureball works like a charm and with all of the playfield components being new the play is smooth and faster then ever!

I got the tip from PinAffliction on the RGP site. He toyed with his working machine to see what would trigger the captureball and found that the #74 switch was required.

So now you guys know that the #74 switch and the reed switches are needed for the Captureball sequence to initiate.

Thanks to Kenbo as well as he first thought to replace the and upper microswitches.
Kenbo
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Re: Help needed

Post by Kenbo »

Congrats on getting it fixed.

I don't recall saying that switch 74 s/b changed but I don't recall much from the last few days either :)

As usual the simple things first. Problem here was it wasn't obvious that the rollover was involved in activating the diverter.
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Eddie
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Re: Help needed

Post by Eddie »

Kenbo wrote:Congrats on getting it fixed.

I don't recall saying that switch 74 s/b changed but I don't recall much from the last few days either :)
.
No you didnt specifically say the #74 switch but you did say the upper playfield switches. Had I done so the problem would have been fixed but the reason might not have been discovered. Replacing just the #74 switch pinpointed the cause of the really weird problem.

Its funny that I have been playing with the Captureball out for so long I forgot just how big a part of the gameplay it is.

It feels like Im playing a completely different machine.

Turn off your Diverter and Capture ball in the Feature Adjustments and play for awhile you will see what I mean.

RFM without the features working is still great but with them working its a fantastic machine.
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